Fostering a Culture of Excitement That Goes Beyond the Classroom

Transcript

Kris (00:00)

Welcome everyone to the learning loop podcast, your best source for educational insights and trends. I’m Kris, your host. Today’s special guest is Dr. Matthew Joseph. He is a leading expert in the field of educational psychology and student engagement. He’s an author speaker and a widely regarded innovative thinker whose work has helped to shape best practices for creating a more inclusive and engaging learning environment. Matt, welcome to the show.

Matt (00:36)

Kris, thanks for having me. It’s fun to connect. I know before we went live, we talked about connecting down in Texas many years ago. So it’s always great to reconnect and see where people are and see what the field is doing now in your work with CISA, of course.

Kris (00:54)

for sure and there’s always the confluence of different ideas and innovation that’s coming through and so I’m super excited to kind of hear where you’re at. We’re going to be chatting today all about things that have to do with engagement, keeping students excited to come to school and making sure that they just enjoy it when they’re there walking in your doors.

Matt (01:13)

Absolutely, I think that that’s important. It’s definitely something that’s very important to me and the work that I do here in New Bedford Public Schools is the assistant superintendent of teaching and learning. I try to bring that in each of the schools because kids don’t come to school to watch teachers work and the more that the kids are engaged in what they’re doing, they’re gonna end up getting the learning out of it.

Kris (01:35)

for sure, I love that statement that kids aren’t here to watch you working, we wanna be the ones working. The kids should be the ones who are owning that as it goes. So I love that framing just from the very beginning. We’ll kick off with our first question here. I know that you’re probably gonna have a million different strategies to share for this one, but if you could just share a couple innovative strategies that you’re implementing in your district to help make learning more engaging and relevant for students, I’d love to hear some ideas that you’re doing.

Matt (01:41)

Absolutely.

Matt (02:05)

Sure, and I think some of them to start off are very low tech. I am somebody who likes to question our students, not in a what are you doing way or who took the cookie way. It’s like, what do you think would happen way and create a real life scenario? What do you think would happen if, you know, insert a character, if, you know, Muhammad Ali started a Twitter handle? What would that be? And then and then get into it, because the more we add relevance to our current.

you know, work the better. How would Einstein explain mathematics using TikTok? Talk to me about that. Or actually, you go make a video and make this. Or let’s make a public service announcement about clean air, but do it like you were in the 50s. And I think having ways where you mix in questioning techniques, getting kids invested, and then weaving in some of the new tools.

would allow for that engagement and allow for that to work. And I think another thing I try, again, it starts with low tech of like, just wow me. Kids love to be challenged. Not like, you know, in a challenging way, but to say wow me. I like your answer, but I’m not impressed. Like try to wow me. And if it takes you 24 hours to build something, that’s okay too, because I want you to come in tomorrow and explain that answer in multiple ways. And I think the more…

we challenge students. There’s a drive in them. And I think educators are the same way. Teachers are leaders. We want to be challenged. I love to rise to a challenge. We might not always reach it, but it’s the journey. We need to do more celebrating the process. And I think those are some of that. I also love to take what are simplistic ideas, like a talk show. Late night with Jimmy Fallon, the Today Show, whatever, and turn your classroom into a talk show.

So instead of calling and answer a kid doing a PowerPoint and essentially turning around and reading the screen, have them be a guest on your talk show and say, come on down. And we have a lot of dedicated months, Black History Month and Women’s History Month and Pride Month is coming up and say, all right, be a historical figure or support a movement, but you’re going to come on my show and you have seven minutes like the guests are and.

Matt (04:23)

I’m going to interview you. The students are going to pay attention. The kids are going to be prepared. And some pushback I often hear is like, well, that student only did one topic or one thing. And I understand that. However, students are going to be way more interested in listening to their peers. So it’s really like crowdsourcing learning, where if each student actually teaches a concept, the kids are going to learn it. Because if the teacher does 20 different historical figures,

I’m guessing that they’re not going to get a 50 % participation rate.

Kris (04:58)

Yeah, I love it. I love that how you’re jigsawing, we’ll call it, jigsawing all those thoughts together to allow those students to be the experts in the field. You know, like you were saying, they’re using a medium that they love. They’re using the idea that they have or the thought and the avenue they want to travel down is something that they own. So that ownership on them just helps them to deepen their understanding and then be able to share that with their peers. It’s such a powerful way to just, shared knowledge in a much more efficient way in a classroom.

Matt (05:32)

Yeah, it’s real life. It’s how it works.

Kris (05:34)

Yeah. Absolutely, for sure, for sure. Love, love that approach and love that you’re really focusing on students first in all of this as well. I’d love to hear if there’s any creative approaches that you’re continuing to do that, that think longer term around growth and ownership of their education as they grow throughout the time in your schools. What kind of ways are you really focusing on that in your classrooms?

Matt (06:00)

I think one way to capture that is start to really embrace learning portfolios and having the opportunity to see growth over time. So if students do a project in kindergarten, it could be just like a hand drawing and they write their name and create one sentence. And then all their projects in kindergarten have the students self -evaluate in the sense of like, share or save.

three or four of your best work, what you think is your best work, and then the teacher does the same. And if you do that through elementary school and they leave fifth grade, they’re gonna have like a workflow of products that shows not only their thinking evolving, but it also sees what they find important. Because if you allow students to choose some of their favorite either projects or things they’ve done the best, you as an educator can say, all right, this student values…

colorful things. This student values text. This student values creativity so that you as an educator can see what they’re doing and as it flows through students will become mature enough to realize like this is following me. Let me put a little bit more effort into this and let me choose one that I think and I think that just allows you know students to matriculate through the grade levels and starting to get back to a word that you said owning their own work and for me you know working in it you know in my role K to 12.

Every student matters from the youngest kindergartner to the graduate. And I think having that learning focused and it’s something for them to be proud of. I’m a kid of the 80s. I remember coming home and putting my work on the refrigerator and I was like super proud and excited. There’s not as much of that now. So I think having something that students can be proud of is something I would really suggest. And that could look different in different districts. But I think having something where students…

see growth over time and it shows what they value in their learning products.

Kris (07:57)

Sure, for sure. And speaking of the products and even the new refrigerators, I think there are still refrigerators where work goes, but it’s like the thing in your pocket, right? It’s like it’s an email or it’s a digital portfolio or it’s…

Matt (08:02)

I’m gonna go.

Yeah, right, right.

Kris (08:11)

It’s something that comes home digitally now. And so I think there’s just so many unique ways to think about how do we get our students to reframe this refrigerator in our classroom? Be like, this is what it’s going to look like. Here’s where we’re going to put all our stuff so that you’re super proud of it and we can see your growth over time. I just love, love that.

Matt (08:21)

Exactly.

Matt (08:30)

I agree.

Kris (08:33)

Awesome, awesome. You’ve spoken a lot about student participation, getting them involved in learning, getting them involved in their portfolios and in their growth. This positive school culture that you’re building is so contagious as you go. What are some of the steps that you’re taking across your buildings that really help to build this positive school culture?

Matt (08:55)

Yeah, now this is in my wheelhouse. That was actually my research at Boston College is how to enhance school culture. And it sounds like, well, that’s just something we do. No, there’s some real strategic ways to do it. I mean, the first one is value you and your staff. Finding out which each of them is. And I’m a big believer in leadership visibility. So that would be one. So when I was a principal, I would always start my day outside so that everybody saw me. And not in a pompous, it’s like, look at me.

It was greeting staff, it was greeting students, it was, this is our school and being proud of it. And then I would intentionally schedule my day that nothing started before, depending on when your school started, an hour into the day. Not that I wasn’t doing anything, but I went to classrooms, I visited, I took a pulse of the building. And I think now as a district leader, I do the same. I try to start every day in a school. Now I have multiple 14 plus schools that I’m responsible for, but.

I was in three today. So I want to find a way to be involved and kids are excited to see me. They know my name and for district leaders, that’s, you know, our district’s 13 ,000 students and 22 schools. So I think having that opportunity enhances the culture because one principal said to me today is like, wow, you actually know what we do. And I was excited to hear it, but at the same time sat in for some of my district leader colleagues in another district where they don’t leave the building.

And I’m very fortunate to have a role where I can be in schools and know the learning and deliver professional development and be part of the excitement. I’m going to be teaching a class next Wednesday. And I think for me, that’s what… I can’t give them more money. I can’t give them more time. I can’t give them a higher rating. But what I can do is value them as professionals and be visible. And when I show up…

It builds that trust in central office or it builds that trust in a building leader. And I think for me, that is the start of building that strong culture is being visible and being part of the learning, not just do what I say kind of.

Kris (11:00)

sure and it it trickles down from where you are also into principals into coaches into teachers and then into the students and I think that’s that’s such an awesome aspiration to have from somebody who I was in the district office to at one point and I know that it can be difficult to balance you know I have all these bigger picture things to work on but at the end of the day those bigger picture things will go further.

Kris (11:27)

if you’re seen, if you’re visible, if you’re out there, if you’re doing the work that you’re asking people to do. So I just love to hear that you’re there, you’re visible and you’re impacting people.

Matt (11:37)

Yeah, it’s important.

Kris (11:40)

Awesome, awesome. We’re going to jump into our next question here. And this is more thinking about student engagement in that classroom, but also then what that means for things like attendance, what that means for coming to school and wanting to be at school. So we’ve heard from multiple different people that absenteeism is at an all time high. Students are, they’re missing class or they’re potentially not even just participating deeply in class. Is there anything that you’re looking at, at like the district,

level as far as red flags that are happening that are just helping you to identify some of these and head them off before they even become issues.

Matt (12:20)

Sure, I think a few different ones. One, the more we’re involved in understanding our community, the more we’ll be able to support that. And I think that at its heart is one of the things that we try to have community outreach, we have community programs so that we as a district can understand the community and respect it, you know, back to the respect and value, respecting them. But one that I truly believe and I work with schools each and every day and I think it’s both for discipline and attendance.

The more exciting the instruction is, kids are going to want to come to school. If they feel they’re missing something by not being in school, then they’re going to show up. I’ll use the example we talked about, the talk show or whatever, where it’s like, tomorrow is my buddy Chris’s. I don’t want to miss his. I’m not going to miss school. If it’s another day of listening to Mr. Chris talk about history, I’m sick today. So I think there’s a true absentee crisis in getting kids in school, and I don’t want to.

minimize that because there’s some mental health in there and there’s some, you know, family structure that is serious. But there’s an equal issue with our instruction that we aren’t creating classrooms that kids are looking to go to. My friend Carl Hooker, who we were actually talking about before, it says the only assessment you need is how many kids are running to your class versus how many are running away. And I think if we make the instruction where kids want to be there, more are going to show up.

Kris (13:44)

And you’re also speaking to the factors that you can control. I think like you spoke to some things that are out of your control. What happens at home or maybe the socioeconomic status of a different neighborhood or things like that. We can’t control that in classrooms, but what we can do is get kids to want to come and get them to be excited to come.

Kris (14:07)

So I love that as a back end and as something that’s kind of your anchor of just like, we gotta make school fun. We gotta have kids who want to run through our hallways, into our classrooms, and just beg to be here every single day. I love that to be your anchor and your kind of, I’ll say your battle cry as you go into school.

Matt (14:27)

Yeah, exactly. No, I like that too.

Kris (14:31)

So, so awesome. We’ll jump into one more question kind of on absenteeism and things like that. Thinking of some of the chronic absenteeism that we’ve had, I know that this can have like an impact on academic achievement. Is there anything that you’re specifically doing to kind of …

Matt (14:36)

Sure.

Kris (14:52)

Intervene with that in as far as instructional methods. I know you talked a little bit about an engagement But is there any other programs or any things that you’re thinking about? How do we make sure that we scoop up this group of students so that they’re caught up for that next phase in their life whether it’s middle school Yeah, go ahead

Matt (15:06)

Sure, yeah, and when you’re talking about high level of absentee and then critical absentee, that’s how you get to the extreme. There’s external factors. So one of the things you look at is maybe you can work with your town or municipal and get free busing. So we have free city busing that can bring kids to school or work with a local cab or Uber company. Like I know these are all financial, but I think.

not having kids in school, there’s a financial issue for the school at that point. So looking at some external factors or just to be honest with you, just ask, like how can we help you get to school? And as little as small as that may sound or maybe as ridiculous as that may sound, even if you get an answer from 10 % of students or families, like, you know what we need? We need an early drop off. Well, then we have at least a way to have a solution or we need, you know, insert example, whatever they would say.

the more we can engage with or talk to the student, what do you need? And it’s like, well, I need breakfast. All right, we’ll make sure that that happens. I stay home because I want to eat and then I miss my ride or whatever it is. And I think having that conversation is important. And I think not only having the conversation, having a non -judgmental conversation, because I know for myself, I had a way to get to school. I had, you know,

at the time, 75 cents to get the bus if I needed it, if I missed the bus or I had my aunt who could drive me. That’s not the case. So I have to withhold my judgment if other people don’t have some of those methods and be sincere. If I’m gonna ask you and you give a suggestion, I have to uphold my end too.

Kris (16:48)

for sure, for sure. I love that thinking externally and asking the students that are here, you know, we know at Seesaw and everywhere how important families are too to this. And so I’d love to hear any thoughts that you have or actions that you’ve been taking to just make sure that families are either informed and or ways that you’re partnering with those families to make sure that students are there.

going beyond coming to school. Like they’re excited to come to school and they’re informed of what’s actually happening. Can you just share a little bit about some of those things that are happening?

Matt (17:18)

Yeah, so one of the things I’ve loved in some of the districts I’ve worked in is there’s departments that have events, that have classes for families, have dinners or events to bring people together. One thing that we do, and I’ve done in a few different districts, especially around technology, is having technology classes for parents, because sometimes they don’t know Seesaw, they don’t know some of the things, they don’t know Chromebooks.

And having, and then what happens is parents get a little embarrassed or they don’t know how to help their kids. And it becomes a little bit of a contentious. So offering like, here’s what an email looks like here. Here’s how kids are setting up. Here’s some of these educational apps. And it’s not screen time. It’s actually learning, you know, a specific program. So offering classes or support for families, I think is a definite way. Also to do like start a YouTube channel. Here’s what.

You know, some of these acronyms are in our profession and having something that is memorialized so families can watch it when it works for them. Recording events. So if families can’t make it in person, because again, back to what I was saying, like every family structure is set up differently. You might not be able to come to night events. Well, if you record them, then you could watch it together on the weekend or something. So I think finding ways to really take on the solutions that families need.

Kris (18:45)

for sure, and getting them involved in a way that helps to inform but also emphasizes the importance of that too. I heard that as your undertone too, that is this one, two punches you’re going through it just to make sure that, you know, it’s great to get them involved now but what you want is this continuous involvement and this longer term involvement.

Kris (19:08)

Two quick questions here as we start to close up. We do ask a loopy question of everybody who here, yep, and it’s just a silly question we’ll go through. If you had a magical educational wand, let’s pretend it’s a wand with like a book at the end or something, what would you wish for everybody to have or every teacher to have? What wish would you make with that wand?

Matt (19:14)

All right, let’s hear it.

Matt (19:31)

So I said at the beginning a couple things I couldn’t give them. And by one would be a schedule that allows for collaborative planning for every grade level with support staff. Meaning like if a special ed teacher works in their speech. Because I think if we had more time where professionals and educators can have a discourse around learning.

Now you actually don’t need a super magic wand for that, but it’s not something we’ve been able to solve in this profession to allow for teachers to have that time because we throw around, you know, I talked about Akroners, we throw around PLC all the time. We don’t really have PLCs. We have groups of people meeting in the same room. And that would be my magic wand because I don’t want to shoot for something too large that wouldn’t have impact, but having teachers collaborate, I learned so much from talking to people.

Kris (20:01)

Yeah.

Matt (20:23)

and I love going to events. We talked about an event, not because I want to speak or I want to see my name in the program. I come away with learning so much and it’s again that crowd sourcing of knowledge. So that would be my magic wand to find a way that there’s always time every day for teachers to meet.

Kris (20:42)

love that aspiration too and the purposefulness that you emphasize there too is really the critical part because I have seen PLCs that they aren’t that effective and they’re not really moving the needle when it comes to what really matters. So I love that wish. Wish it could come true. I wish I could grant it. But we’ll see.

Matt (21:03)

I’m trying, even part of my role, I keep trying to make it happen. So I’m gonna keep working.

Kris (21:07)

Yeah, yeah. Keep on it, keep on it. You have the magic wand and you can get there.

Matt (21:11)

Alright, let’s see what I can do.

Kris (21:14)

Final question here as we close up, we want to just think about what is ahead for you? What is ahead for the future? What would you like your district to really be working on through? Maybe this is a short -term goal, maybe it’s a five -year goal, maybe it’s a 10 -year goal, but what is the future goal that you’re really working on to just help to improve things like engagement, student ownership, or attendance, or anything like that? What are you really shooting for when it comes to those?

forward thinking events.

Matt (21:46)

Sure, and I’m really excited because I tried something this year that worked and so it’s going to be my goal to continue it through the year and it’s choice professional development. And I’ve been very fortunate in my many years in education to attend events like we talked about, you know, ISTE before, FETC or even locally. And teachers enjoy choosing where session to go to or having conversations. And then when I see district professional development, it’s like, all right, here’s the one thing you’re doing.

If you’re a nurse, if you’re a second grade teacher, if you’re a middle school math teacher or a high school language teacher, here’s what we’re gonna do. And I tried to do it here in the district and it was a big success. And I wanna try to replicate professional development offered as events. Because when people get to sign up for what they want, and that was a huge success here, 89 % of people got their first choice. And when they went into the session, they’re ready to learn, because they want to be there.

So for me, that’s a big goal in my district role is to shift how professional developments deliver so that teachers, you know, we want students engaged, but we want adults engaged too. And if you’re, if you get to choose your sessions, you’re going to be like, I want to do this. And then if it, if you don’t learn or you’re like, I didn’t put it into practice, that’s on yourself for, for not doing it versus like, the district didn’t plan something for me. And so that’s, that’s a real goal for me.

Kris (22:54)

Yeah.

Matt (23:13)

in the short term, but then to have it sustainable. Because there’s things you can do once, and it’s like, this is great, and then you never do it again.

Kris (23:21)

Totally for sure. I love, love that idea of having the choice -based professional development. I think there’s so much momentum around what you were saying is being able to choose and own what you really want to learn about, then you’re going to have a super high likelihood of putting it into place in your classroom, which is going to positively impact your students, your families, and everybody and just has this ongoing effect throughout all of your schools. I absolutely love that.

Matt (23:45)

I hope so. Great.

Kris (23:48)

Well, we are at time. I just want to say, Matt, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing these powerful insights around everything, around student engagement, around parent involvement, around innovative professional development structures and strategies. I just want to say thank you for being here.

Matt (24:00)

Wonderful. Well, thanks for having me and look forward to connecting in real life very soon.

Kris (24:07)

That’s absolutely right. You have a great afternoon. Bye.